House Proceeding 05-07-09 on May 7th, 2009 :: 0:38:25 to 0:58:25
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0:37:50 to 0:38:25( Edit History Discussion )
Speech By: Spencer Bachus

0:38:07 to 0:38:25( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: the chair: the gentleman from alabama is recognized for 15 seconds. mr. bachus: first, i want to acknowledge that the funding for this bill is for a good thing, for mortgage foreclosure efforts. i would point out that i think the bachmann amendment is the same amendment that we adopted in the g.s.e. affordable housing fund.

0:38:26 to 0:38:46( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: so we did adopt that in that legislation. so her amendment would be did last year. i yield back the balance of my time. the chair: the gentleman's time has expired. the gentleman from massachusetts. mr. frank: how much time remains to me, mr. chairman? the chair: the gentleman from massachusetts has 3 1/2 minutes remaing.

0:38:30 to 0:43:25( Edit History Discussion )
Speech By: Barney Frank

0:38:47 to 0:39:07( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: mr. frank: i will yield one minute to the gentleman from i apologize. i said i was the last speaker. i apologize. i did not know that. i have to use the time myself. the gentlewoman from minnesota said, do we want to allow funding for people who employ people who are under investigation? yes. i don't want to live in a society where the mere

0:39:08 to 0:39:28( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: institution of an investigation by any prosecutor anywhere shuts down lawful activities. now, she said an organization that's under indictment, but the amendment goes far beyond that. organization no matter how far flung apparently accordin to the gentleman from minnesota, if an investigation begins of

0:39:29 to 0:39:49( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: anybody you shut them down. the gentlewoman from minnesota under the amendment i offered it would end it. mrs. bachmann: will the gentleman yield? mr. frank: no. the conviction triggers it. my amendment says if you are convicted it's triggered. but to say any individual who works for any organization

0:39:50 to 0:40:10( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: that's indicted shuts it down, the gentlewoman says, are you on the side of acorn -- mauck mauck will the gentleman yield to answer my point? the chair: the gentleman from massachusetts controls the time. mr. frank: the gentlewoman

0:40:11 to 0:40:32( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: says, are you for acorn or are you for the american people? this bill says nothing about acorn. approved h.u.d. counseling agenci and state agencies can make the choice. are you for the principle of mere institution of an indictment by any prosecutor anywhere at any level?

0:40:33 to 0:40:53( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: mrs. bachmann: will the gentleman yield? mr. frank: could she be instructed that that is the answer she's going to get and to stop interrupting? the chair: it's apparent the gentleman is not going to yield. the house rules do indicate that when a member asks another member to yield several times and it's apparent that the member is not going to yield then the member shouldn't

0:40:54 to 0:41:15( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: continue to ask to yield when is then viewed as being interrupted. the gentleman from massachusetts. mr. frank: thank you. there are some basic rules like ones of debate. also the fact that i said to empower any prosec at any level, and this isn't about acorn. we don't hear -- the

0:41:16 to 0:41:36( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: gentlewoman says we don't judge guilt or innocence. the amendment is a guilty finding by statute in the absence of finding in a court of law. if there is a guilty finding in a court of law then this denies funding to people. there are a lot of prosecutors, and it's not just acorn, there are a lot of organizations includinpolitical parties in the state of new hampshire, the

0:41:37 to 0:41:58( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: republican pty operatives were convicted of election fraud. i don't think that means you go and go after everybody else. and that does not mean pending indictment you do this. there ought to be a bright line between penalties of indictment and for conviction. now, if the amendment said a pattern of indictments, that's a different story. there might have been beater

0:41:59 to 0:42:20( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: argument. but this says a single amendment by any individual by any prosecutor for any organization anywhere in america has these negative consequences. i think we've seen enough of prosecutorial misconduct. whether it was senator stevens or whether it was members on both sides of the aisle here, whether it has been organizations that have been prosecuted.

0:42:21 to 0:42:41( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: i don't think we want to set that principle. once we set that principle -- if i missed that i apologize. i want to now repudiate the notion that the action of a single prosecutor who may be politically motivated to indict anybody anywhere for election fraud disables that organization, forces the

0:42:42 to 0:43:03( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: organization to fire an individual who may later be vindicated. yes, the gentlew of the employees of that organization was convicted. my amendment says in that case you either fire the person or you lose the money. conviction ought to be the standard. but a single indictment by a single prosecutor anywhere, i do not thin of law under which americans want to live.

0:43:04 to 0:43:24( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: and i yield back the balance of my time. the chair: the gentleman's time has expired. the question is on the gentleman from massachusetts. those in favor say aye. those opposed, no. in the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it. the amendment is -- mrs. bachmann: mr. speaker, i request a recorded vote. the chair: pursuant to clause 6 of rule 18, further proceedings on the amendment offered by the

0:43:25 to 0:43:37( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: gentleman from massachusetts

0:43:38 to 0:43:58( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: will be postponed. it is now in order to consider amendment number 3 printed in house report 111-98. for gentleman from alabama rise? have an amendment at the desk that i ask to be made in order. it is under the rule. the chair: the clerk will designate the amendment. the clerk: amendment number 3

0:43:55 to 0:49:30( Edit History Discussion )
Speech By: Spencer Bachus

0:43:59 to 0:44:21( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: printed in house report 111-98 offered by mr. bachus of alabama. the chair: pursuant to house resolution 406, the gentleman from alabama, mr. bachus, and a member opposed each will control five minutes. the chair recognizes the gentleman from alabama. mr. bachus: thank you. before i discuss my amendment i'd like to thank chairman

0:44:22 to 0:44:42( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: frank really first of all acknowledge his efforts over the past few years to combat predatory lending practices. and i think as early as 2005 he was aggressively trying to stop some of these practices.

0:44:43 to 0:45:04( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: i also appreciate the chairman's working with me to bring this amendment to the floor. originally my amendment funded foreclosure rescue scam awareness and prevention efforts. and that's what the amendment is about. it's about so-called foreclosure rescue scams.

0:45:05 to 0:45:25( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: i had proposed using money from the legal assistance fund and after consultation with chairman frank i revised my amendment to use the bill's counseling authorization as a funding source. and although the chairman and i disagree on the underlying merits of the bill, i do

0:45:26 to 0:45:47( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: appreciate the spirit of bipartisanship which the chairman has shown in our discussions on this amendment and the bill as a whole. and i earlier acknowledged your efforts since i think at least 2005 to come up with a bipartisan bill. i don't think we were successful this year, but i think had our efforts been

0:45:48 to 0:46:10( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: successful in prior years we could have avoided some of this. and i'm sorry the other body didn't show the urgency that we did. mr. chairman, members of the body -- mr. frank: will the gentleman yield. there's a lot of that going around. he said he's sorry the other body didn't move.

0:46:11 to 0:46:32( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: there's a lot of that going around. mr. bachus: he's right. there is. i tell the members, there's unprecedented number of homeowners that are delinquen on their mortgages and entering foreclosure. in fact the mortgage bankers association estimate at least

0:46:33 to 0:46:53( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: 11% of the mortgages now are delinquent and will probably go into foreclosure and this is creating really a desperate situation across the country. and unfortunately as all desperate situations this has crted an opportunity for scam artist to take advantage of

0:46:54 to 0:47:14( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: homeowners in situations through so-called foreclosure rescue schemes. my amendment will offer at least some protection to those homeowners from being victimized in this waysway. it's just amazing whether it was in katrina or other natural disasters or gas shortages that people seem to take advantage

0:47:15 to 0:47:37( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: and act their worse during times of struggle in crisis. this amendment allows mortgage servicers to work toward -- to work togethe neighborhood reinvestment corporation which is a congressional chartered

0:47:38 to 0:48:00( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: organization to make delinquent borrowers aware that they are targets of fraud. the amendment is funded by dedicating 10% othe funds authorized under section 404 to this much-need form of housing counseling. many scam artists use publicly available information about defaults and foreclosures

0:48:01 to 0:48:21( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: starts to contact troubled borrowers. in states with judicial foreclosures, lenders file the foreclosure action in a local court. and states where there's nonjudicial foreclosure regimes, lenders file a notice of default with the county or court. all these records are available to the public d provide raw

0:48:22 to 0:48:42( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: material for fraud artists to prey upon troubled borrowers. in a classic system borrowers are duped into paying upfront fees for a loan modification that never occurs. in some cases borrowers are told that in order to complete a mortgage refinancing needed to avoid foreclosure they must

0:48:43 to 0:49:03( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: sign over the title of the property. another scam promises homeowners they can stay in their home as renters and buy back their properties at a later date. on february 10, 2009, the administration released the home affordable refinance program and home modification program.

0:49:04 to 0:49:24( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: unfortunately with the introduction of these new programs, unscrupulous persons or companies have yet again found new opportunities to defraud unsuspecting borrowers. in fact, august 6, about a month ago, the treasury's fin

0:49:25 to 0:49:30( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: sen announced guidance to financial institutions on filing suspicious activity reports regarding loan

0:49:31 to 0:49:45( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: modification and foreclosure rescue scam. the chair: the gentleman's time has expired. mr. bachus: thank you. mr. frank: mr. chairman. the chair: the gentleman from massachusetts. mr. frank: in the absence of anyone else i will claim the time in opposition. the chair: the gentleman is

0:49:35 to 0:49:45( Edit History Discussion )
Speech By: Barney Frank

0:49:46 to 0:50:06( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: recognized for five minutes. mr. frank: mr. chairman, the gentleman from alabama has very accurately stated this. he helped us avoid some problems that we might have. mr. bachus: if you'll yield 15 seconds. mr. frank: i yield to the gentleman. mr. bachus: thank you. the chair: the gentleman -- mr. frank: i yield to the gentleman from alabama.

0:49:50 to 0:51:10( Edit History Discussion )
Speech By: Spencer Bachus

0:50:07 to 0:50:27( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: the chair: how much time? mr. frank: 30 seconds. mr. bachus: thank you. i think this is a very good amendment. i want to close and thank you for that time. mr. frank and i both agree and i think most members of this body, we must stop these outrageous mortgage fraud rescue schemes. congress shuts off one avenue

0:50:28 to 0:50:49( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: for fraud and we did that with a national mortgaging lng and registration system now being instituted by the banking supervisors. but every time you shut one door, these innovative crooks find a back door and now they move into the fertile field of foreclosure. we must protect unsuspecting

0:50:50 to 0:51:10( Edit History Discussion )

Spencer Bachus: and vulnerable homeown i close by saying i urge my colleagues to vote yes. the chair: the gentleman's time has expired. the question is on the amendment offered by the gentleman from alabama. those in favor say aye. those opposed, no. in the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it.

0:51:11 to 0:51:31( Edit History Discussion )

Ed Perlmutter: the amendment is agreed to. it's now in order to consider amendment number 4 printed in house report 111-98. for what purpose does the ntleman from colorado rise? mr. perlmutter: mr. chairman, i have an amendment at the desk. the chair: the clerk will designate the amendment. the clerk: amendment number 4 printed in house report 111-98

0:51:25 to 0:54:00( Edit History Discussion )
Speech By: Ed Perlmutter

0:51:32 to 0:51:52( Edit History Discussion )

Ed Perlmutter: offered by mr. perlmutter of colorado. the chair: pursuant to house resolution 406, the gentleman from colorado, mr. perlmutter, and a member opposed each will control five minutes. the chair recognizes the gentleman from colorado. mr. perlmutter: thank you, mr. chairman. the amendment that i propose to the house today is two-fold.

0:51:53 to 0:52:15( Edit History Discussion )

Ed Perlmutter: first part deals with a section of the bill that provides 90 days for tenants to stay in a home or in an apartment house that's been foreclosed upon. the purpose of this amendment and it's very narrowly drawn is only as to those properties that are owner occupied homes

0:52:16 to 0:52:36( Edit History Discussion )

Ed Perlmutter: where the owner has covenanted with the lender that they're going to occupy the house what happens is often the owner moves out, leases the property to someone, foreclosure begins, the lender has no chain of title, no connection with this particular tenant nor is there

0:52:37 to 0:52:57( Edit History Discussion )

Ed Perlmutter: any expectation that there would be a tenant because the owner said i'm going to live there under the law today, there is no additional time beyond the foreclosure for a pers that owner-occupied house.

0:52:58 to 0:53:19( Edit History Discussion )

Ed Perlmutter: under the bill that's proposed, that timeline is extended to 90 days beyond the foreclosure. my amendment shrinks that back to 30 days so it's 30 days more than the law allows today but less than what's proposed in the bill because the lender has never had any dealings with that particular tenant.

0:53:20 to 0:53:40( Edit History Discussion )

Ed Perlmutter: this is not like a multi-family apartment house where the lender expects that there are going to be tenants or an investor type of a loan where the lender expects a tenant to be in place. . so i have asked to shrink it down to 30 days. that's the first part of the amendment. the second part of the amendment

0:53:41 to 0:54:00( Edit History Discussion )

Ed Perlmutter: is something i talked to mr. miller about which is to clarify the language about when acceleration of a loan can occur. now what we have said is acceleration occurs upon a default in sale clause or material violation in the contract. so those are the two sections of

0:54:01 to 0:54:21( Edit History Discussion )

Keith Ellison: this amendment. with that i reserve the balance of my time. the chair: the gentleman reserves the balance of his time. for what purpose does the gentleman from minnesota rise? mr. ellison: to claim the time in opposition. the chair: the gentleman is recognized for five minutes. mr. ellison: let me thank my

0:54:05 to 0:57:05( Edit History Discussion )
Speech By: Keith Ellison

0:54:22 to 0:54:43( Edit History Discussion )

Keith Ellison: friend from colorado who has worked diligently. he was an excellent legislator, fine lawyer, and i think still is licensed to practice law. it's a pleasure to working with him. on this issue unfortunately we don't see it the same. and i ink that the 0 -- 90-day provision is fine and should remain in the bill as it exists now. tout down by 60 days the opportunity for a renter to find

0:54:44 to 0:55:04( Edit History Discussion )

Keith Ellison: a new place to live after they may have done nothing wrong, made every payment, paid every penny on time, really is not fair and is not good for policy. the fact is, is that when a house goes into foreclosure, that home is best -- that neighborhood and that home are best preserved by keeping the occupant in there.

0:55:05 to 0:55:25( Edit History Discussion )

Keith Ellison: if they are required to leave after just 30 days, which is very, very fast, that means tt we could end up with an empty building where it is subject to copper strippers, it will be a nuisance for people who want to commit perhaps crime. it will be a bad situation and we know that

0:55:26 to 0:55:46( Edit History Discussion )

Keith Ellison: once a house goes into foreclosure and then is not occupied, that is a direct blow to the property values of people who live everywhere in the neighborhood. so this provision, this 90 days actually makes a lot of sense. it should stay in harmony the bill as it exist answer not be reduced. i will acknowledge appreciation that the author of this amendment does allow for 30 days.

0:55:47 to 0:56:08( Edit History Discussion )

Keith Ellison: i appreciate that. but i think it should be more. it should be the 90 days that is already there. this amendment if adopted would work to penalize the one person who has not had anything to do with the foreclosure crisis. they were not party to the foreclosure. they were not party to the mortgage in the

0:56:09 to 0:56:29( Edit History Discussion )

Keith Ellison: they weren't party to the securitization, nor did they engage in any perfect rif tiffs or -- derivatives or anything like that. the tenant who may have been paying every month, month after month has no control or responsibility over the owner

0:56:30 to 0:56:51( Edit History Discussion )

Keith Ellison: who may have conditions of the mortgage agreement and this extra 60 days that the existing bill provides lender. let me just also say, the fact is is that the individual -- this is not just an individual

0:56:52 to 0:57:06( Edit History Discussion )

Keith Ellison: to take a very legalistic view of they are not in the chain of title therefore they are out, ignores the fact that this problem of foreclosures has spread across the nation, is a community problem, is a problem

0:57:07 to 0:57:27( Edit History Discussion )

Ed Perlmutter: ever everyone not just a narrow fixed party to party agreement. and therefore there needs to be a solution that takes into consideration a broader interest as well. i will yield back the balance of my time. again i thank the gentleman from colorado. i reserve the balance of my time and again thank the gentleman from colorado for his diligent work on this issue. the chair: the gentleman reserves the balance of his time.

0:57:10 to 0:59:30( Edit History Discussion )
Speech By: Ed Perlmutter

0:57:28 to 0:57:48( Edit History Discussion )

Ed Perlmutter: the gentleman from colorado. mr. perlmutter: i'd ask my friend from minnesota whether he has any other speakers. if not i have the right to close on my amendment. mr. ellison: mr. speaker, i heard i had the right to close. the chair: the gentleman from minnesota actually has the right

0:57:49 to 0:58:10( Edit History Discussion )

Ed Perlmutter: to close. the gentleman is the manager opposed to the amendment. mr. perlmutter: learn something every day. i would say to my friend from minnesota i appreciate your comments. although i would disagree with you. when it comes to a situation where tenants are expected to be

0:58:11 to 0:58:31( Edit History Discussion )

Ed Perlmutter: in a property, whether it's a multifamily apartment house or -- something where there is this expectation on the lender, i would agree with my friend's points. not here. not where there's been a convenant that it's going to be owner occupied. often that convenant comes along with a reduction in the interest rate. there is consideration for it.