House Proceeding 05-07-09 on May 7th, 2009 :: 0:38:30 to 0:43:25
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0:38:26 to 0:38:46( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: so we did adopt that in that legislation. so her amendment would be did last year. i yield back the balance of my time. the chair: the gentleman's time has expired. the gentleman from massachusetts. mr. frank: how much time remains to me, mr. chairman? the chair: the gentleman from massachusetts has 3 1/2 minutes remaing.

0:38:30 to 0:43:25( Edit History Discussion )
Speech By: Barney Frank

0:38:47 to 0:39:07( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: mr. frank: i will yield one minute to the gentleman from i apologize. i said i was the last speaker. i apologize. i did not know that. i have to use the time myself. the gentlewoman from minnesota said, do we want to allow funding for people who employ people who are under investigation? yes. i don't want to live in a society where the mere

0:39:08 to 0:39:28( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: institution of an investigation by any prosecutor anywhere shuts down lawful activities. now, she said an organization that's under indictment, but the amendment goes far beyond that. organization no matter how far flung apparently accordin to the gentleman from minnesota, if an investigation begins of

0:39:29 to 0:39:49( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: anybody you shut them down. the gentlewoman from minnesota under the amendment i offered it would end it. mrs. bachmann: will the gentleman yield? mr. frank: no. the conviction triggers it. my amendment says if you are convicted it's triggered. but to say any individual who works for any organization

0:39:50 to 0:40:10( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: that's indicted shuts it down, the gentlewoman says, are you on the side of acorn -- mauck mauck will the gentleman yield to answer my point? the chair: the gentleman from massachusetts controls the time. mr. frank: the gentlewoman

0:40:11 to 0:40:32( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: says, are you for acorn or are you for the american people? this bill says nothing about acorn. approved h.u.d. counseling agenci and state agencies can make the choice. are you for the principle of mere institution of an indictment by any prosecutor anywhere at any level?

0:40:33 to 0:40:53( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: mrs. bachmann: will the gentleman yield? mr. frank: could she be instructed that that is the answer she's going to get and to stop interrupting? the chair: it's apparent the gentleman is not going to yield. the house rules do indicate that when a member asks another member to yield several times and it's apparent that the member is not going to yield then the member shouldn't

0:40:54 to 0:41:15( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: continue to ask to yield when is then viewed as being interrupted. the gentleman from massachusetts. mr. frank: thank you. there are some basic rules like ones of debate. also the fact that i said to empower any prosec at any level, and this isn't about acorn. we don't hear -- the

0:41:16 to 0:41:36( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: gentlewoman says we don't judge guilt or innocence. the amendment is a guilty finding by statute in the absence of finding in a court of law. if there is a guilty finding in a court of law then this denies funding to people. there are a lot of prosecutors, and it's not just acorn, there are a lot of organizations includinpolitical parties in the state of new hampshire, the

0:41:37 to 0:41:58( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: republican pty operatives were convicted of election fraud. i don't think that means you go and go after everybody else. and that does not mean pending indictment you do this. there ought to be a bright line between penalties of indictment and for conviction. now, if the amendment said a pattern of indictments, that's a different story. there might have been beater

0:41:59 to 0:42:20( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: argument. but this says a single amendment by any individual by any prosecutor for any organization anywhere in america has these negative consequences. i think we've seen enough of prosecutorial misconduct. whether it was senator stevens or whether it was members on both sides of the aisle here, whether it has been organizations that have been prosecuted.

0:42:21 to 0:42:41( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: i don't think we want to set that principle. once we set that principle -- if i missed that i apologize. i want to now repudiate the notion that the action of a single prosecutor who may be politically motivated to indict anybody anywhere for election fraud disables that organization, forces the

0:42:42 to 0:43:03( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: organization to fire an individual who may later be vindicated. yes, the gentlew of the employees of that organization was convicted. my amendment says in that case you either fire the person or you lose the money. conviction ought to be the standard. but a single indictment by a single prosecutor anywhere, i do not thin of law under which americans want to live.

0:43:04 to 0:43:24( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: and i yield back the balance of my time. the chair: the gentleman's time has expired. the question is on the gentleman from massachusetts. those in favor say aye. those opposed, no. in the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it. the amendment is -- mrs. bachmann: mr. speaker, i request a recorded vote. the chair: pursuant to clause 6 of rule 18, further proceedings on the amendment offered by the

0:43:25 to 0:43:37( Edit History Discussion )

Barney Frank: gentleman from massachusetts